80/20 runs not labeled correctly | 80/20 Endurance

80/20 runs not labeled correctly

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  • #13620
    aaronhill
    Participant

    Hello,

    Myself and most of my coworkers have adopted the 80/20 methodology and are linked on Garmin connect. I’ve noticed that in my workout summaries, my runs show up as “XXXXX County running” while theirs show up as the actual run name “RFR23 Running”.

    It hasn’t bothered me much over the last year or so, but now that a few of us are training for an ultra, it would be nice to both allow them to see which training run I did, as well as see it for myself if I an reviewing my history.

    Of note, I have deleted and re added the plans multiple times to no avail, and the problem has followed me across 3 different phones.

    Finally, I have android while most of them run Apple devices, so that is what they believe the problem is. Either way, I would like to fix this if possible, any help would be great.

    #13622
    David Warden
    Keymaster

    Aaron,

    Thanks for using our plans. Can I assume that you are referring only to completed workout summaries (past), not planned workout titles (future).

    If so, 80/20 does not have any control over this, the summary titles are going to be dictated by either TP, Garmin Connect or the physical device.

    But, let’s see what we can figure out. Can you compare the completed workout title in all 3 of your platforms and report back what TP calls it, Garmin Connect calls it, and your Android device (or the device you use when exercising) calls it. The flow of the completed workouts will be from Device -> Garmin Connect -> TP, so I’m curious at what point in that chain the completed workout is renamed from RFR23 to “Country Run”. If that’s what you Android device calls it, then Garmin Connect and TP are just going to follow suit.

    David

    #13623
    David Warden
    Keymaster

    …as a side note, take a look at the 80/20 Strava feed on the right side of this Forums. Note that some of the workouts are listed as “Morning Run” and some are listed as “CAe8”. I’ve always been curious why, but I think this is the same issue you are seeing. Some devices simply take over the name of the workout when complete.

    David

    #13624
    aaronhill
    Participant

    👏, I’m stoked on the quick reply. Here is an example of historical run saved across the different systems

    TP – RL31 (Long run)

    Garmin connect on android device- San Diego County Running
    ** note here that Connect shows RL31 as planned on this day, but saved the actual run separately.

    Garmin MK2 watch- simply shows the distance of historical runs

    I would guess that Connect is the problem, even though I am actually running the loaded training plan on the Garmin watch; ie, on this day I clicked run on the watch, then RL31 popped up for that day, and I started the run and followed the planned run via the watch.

    Any advice?

    #13626
    aaronhill
    Participant

    Reply to your side note.

    I understand what you mean, but ALL of my Garmin history simply shows the county the run was conducted in and ‘running’.

    Ie ‘San Diego County running’ or ‘Riverside county running”

    #13627
    David Warden
    Keymaster

    Do you ALWAYS show two separate workouts after completing a workout? Or is the RL31 today just an outlier. If the planned and completed workout never “match” then this issue makes total sense. What should happen is that if the completed workout is really close to the planned workout in duration and on the same day, then Garmin considers the completed workout the same as the planned workout, they are merged, and the original planned title is maintained. If Garmin considers the completed workout different than the planned workout, then a separate and second completed activity is created that has your generic “Country Run” (because it has no other context to go on). This issue is usually a timezone mismatch between TP, GC, or the device. If GC thinks you’re in GMT +1, but your device says you are are GMT -7, then the completed workout is too far away from the planned activity and it is written as a separate workout.

    If you are seeing the planned workout RL31 title being completely replaced by the completed activity with a successful merge of the planned and completed activities, then I regret I’m at a loss and I’d reach out to Garmin for help. Maybe someone else can chime in that has seen a similar issue.

    David

    #13632
    David Warden
    Keymaster

    …or, if your device is not reporting the workout as a “run” but some other workout type, it won’t match the planned workout with the completed activity and therefore won’t maintain the title.

    #13636
    aaronhill
    Participant

    Looking back at my history, there isn’t a single instance where Garmin labeled my run correctly. I will contact them on Monday when they open to see if they can figure it out. Thank you for the help, and if anyone else has dealt with this please chime in.

    I typically do the run exactly as prescribed, with some rare exceptions not having time to complete the full cool down. So I don’t think that’s my my issue, but I can’t seem to find my time zone settings within training peaks yet, so I haven’t fully verified that being the problem.

    #13731
    aaronhill
    Participant

    After working with Garmin support over the last few days, I have some more info.

    They are being as helpful as possible and trying to analyze the issue. One thing they noted was that, as David said, my runs were outside the parameters on the actual plan. This is due to me starting my warm-up cold, and not actually entering zone 1 HR until halfway through my typical 5 minute plan warmup. The same thing goes for cooldowns; I busted the threshold for these because I typically slow my pace to as slow of a run as possible while still running, but it typically takes half of my cool down to get into the actual cool down, zone 1 HR zone. So, I tried to get my last 2 x RF26 runs as close as possible to the zone for as long as possible.

    I did this by doing a pre-warm up and starting the workout after about 3 min of jogging, thinking i would be in zone 1, and then staying in zone 2 as well as I could. I was in zone 1 for 4:45 of the 5:00 required and in zone 2 for 40:34 of the required 40:00. Still no success on correct naming.

    Question 1 would be – How big is this the allowable deviation from the plan that you mention David? When running heart rate its a bit tough for me not to bust the zone high or low as my heart rate catches up with actual exertion, as mentioned in Matt’s book, so I assumed there would be a bit of leeway.

    Question 2- Who do I contact to switch my HR plan to pace? HR is a good baseline to start with, but I after running 3 x 80/20 plans, I have a solid grasp of the concept and workouts. I feel rather limited during summer-time runs when I blow a zone right off the bat because the heat index may get up to 110*F, even though I have acclimated as well as possible for the given environmental conditions.

    Switching to pace on my upcoming plan may solve this problem as well as allow me to push a bit harder and still follow my given plan as depicted on my watch.

    #13732
    David Warden
    Keymaster

    “How big is this the allowable deviation from the plan that you mention David?”

    I’m not exactly sure of the question, I think you mean how much flexibility is there in HR, given how much time HR can take to get into/out of a zone. From https://www.8020endurance.com/getting-started-with-80-20-training/

    Q: I’m struggling to stay in Zone 1 or Zone 2. Help!

    A: …If you are drifting into Zone 2 when Zone 1 is called for, or even having a difficult time reaching Zone 1 or 2, this is just fine. While the division between Zone 2 and Zone X (low intensity and moderate intensity) is empirical, the division between Zone 1 and Zone 2 is a best-guess from Coach Matt and David. Both Zone 1 and 2 are considered “easy” in the 80/20 system.

    …Finally, using heart rate as a primary measure of intensity introduces an increased chance of zone compliance issues, and using pace or power instead is recommended.

    Q: With high-intensity short Zone 4 and 5 intervals, my heart rate can’t “catch up”.

    A: This is addressed in our documents Understanding Your 80/20 Run Plan and Understanding Your 80/20 Triathlon Plan. Because HR is a lagging indicator, Pace and Power are more reliable methods at high intensities. Absent Pace and Power, RPE should be used for Zone 4 and 5. This issue can also be resolved by using the 80/20 Run and Bike Zones Garmin App, where you can have both real-time HR and your custom 80/20 Pace or Power zones displayed on your device at the same time.

    So, a lot of deviation and flexibility is expected with HR, just due to the nature of HR.

    To get the Pace version, also from https://www.8020endurance.com/getting-started-with-80-20-training/

    A: Although we only list Heart Rate plans on this site, 80/20 Run plans are available in Pace, Power and Heart Rate. You can view and purchase all intensity types at the TrainingPeaks store. Or after purchase of the Heart Rate plan, simply Contact Us and select the Level Guarantee when prompted, and we will share the Pace or Power plan with you.

    David

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