Question on VT | 80/20 Endurance

# Question on VT

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• #9599
Bstarr
Participant

In the 80/20 Tri book you mention VT with regards to max heartrate. It’s not clear how you’re determining max heartrate. Is it the old 220-age calc. or is it based on the LTHR test or some other method. Trying to understand how your comments on VT fit into my heartrate and pace zones.

#9606
David Warden
Keymaster

Bstarr,

I think you are referring to page 3 where we state that VT occurs at about 78% of MaxHR in a trained athlete, and again on page 22 where we repeat that. Those our only references to MaxHR. MaxHR is not used in any way in the 80/20 system, it was just a reference point so the reader had some idea of where VT occurred.

What you are really looking for is Chapter 4 page 50. Because VT (and even MaxHR) can only be identified in a lab, we use LT as the polestar to estimate VT. LT and VT are not the same intensity, but if you know LT you can find VT, and unlike VT, LT can be reliably tested in the field. Once you find your LT, you plug that into the Zone Calculator (or page 55 and 69 in the book) and that’s how you find your HR zones in the 80/20 system.

David

#9618
Bstarr
Participant

Thanks for responding, David. Those are the two areas of the book where I saw VT mentioned. Was simply trying to understand where VT lies with respect to my calculated 80/20 zones. Dealing strictly with running at the moment, my tested LTHR was 173 with an FTP of 8:28. If LTHR were to correlate at all to MaxHR then low intensity would be Z1 80% of the time and that’s not the case with your 80/20 plan. Not in any way trying to infer that something is wrong with your 80/20 philosophy. Just trying to understand everything a little better. As a bull-headed amateur 80/20 is the first formal training method I’ve tried to adhere to as it makes a ton of sense.

#9621
David Warden
Keymaster

B,

You’ve brought up a good point. Where is VT in the 80/20 zones? Top of Zone 2: the division between low and moderate intensity. If we could find an accurate field test that estimated VT we’d use it (and, we actually are close do doing that! stay tuned!)

I’d like to challenge you on your MaxHR. How do you know what your MaxHR is? MaxHR can only be identified with a specific type of test administered by a professional. Age-based estimates are very unlikely to be accurate. MaxHR is also almost always at least 15-20 beats higher than LTHR. If your LTHR is 173, your true MaxHR could be 193. Based on age-based calculations, that makes you 27 years old… I’m guessing you are not 27 years old. Therefore you MaxHR is probably much higher than you think.

Remember, your LTHR has actually been tested. Your MaxHR is a guess.

David

#9622
Bstarr
Participant

Thanks again, David.

I agree. I have no idea what my MaxHR is.

Top of zone 2 is what I had kind of assumed the answer to be as I never feel like my breathing spikes on an RF run no matter the time. Zone 2 or lower also appears to be where a significant portion of 80/20 training is done. Put those two things together and it all makes sense.

Thanks so much for your time.

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