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Few other bits:
Training Peaks NGP has me at the equivalent of 1 minute faster.
Strava’s GAP has it a bit faster, 1:30 faster
Online hill calculator adjustment has me about 1 minute faster.
My RPE on the hills and training, 1 minute faster feels very doable on a flat course.
I trust TP’s NGP and my RPE especially, so thinking 1 minute adjustment would be safe bet.
I also have this question simply because there are rarely any flat races out here, yet I train in a flat park, so being able to adjust like this without having to do races + time trials all the time would be ideal 😛
ah, this is super geeky and helpful! In reading up on how people suggest pacing, this gives me a better sense of how to go into the race. Especially important because the first half is mostly climbing. Think I’m going to go with a steady, but slightly under what I might be able to hold in the climbing, save some energy for the second half, and turbo charge it because it’s all downhill.
Can’t wait to get more 5ks under my belt to get a better sense of pacing. I did a few years of cross country in high school, but I swear, I just went all-out and survived until the end every time lol. No sense of pacing back then, at least not consciously!
oh yeah, I’ve used creatine before and found it to significantly helpful. Been a while, but I have it on my list to add in maybe at the start of the new year. Definitely feel turbo charged for zone 5 efforts!
Update: went ahead and did the swap. Woke up with an 89% Whoop recovery and was feeling good too. Not as fresh of legs as I’d like, but seemed solid enough. Plus, these repeats kicked my butt and I think I’d prefer a day off versus 2 more days in a row as it was scheduled 😛 Definitely going to be feeling this tomorrow.
Thanks, Leyla! That metaphor singing range really helps 🙂 With my new LTHR, I felt I could ‘just run’ today on my easy run, without having to check my HR so much like I did before (and my pace just naturally lined up as well). Feels nice! Even if it was 35 degrees with a 14mph wind 😛
Actually, I do have a question about TP from this 20 minute test. I assume the result is threshold pace, and in the 8020 Zone Calculator, I would choose ‘threshold pace’ and put in my avg pace for that 20 minutes. However, I see you can also choose ’20 minute test’ in the calculator and it looks like you put in avg pace for the 20 minutes, but gives a different TP as a result. Which is correct?
Hey David 🙂 Thanks so much for the deeper dive! Super helpful for going forward and understanding the plans and levels, especially going between distances.
I think had I not missed the peak duration week in the HM 0 plan, and really most of the week before it, it would have been a no-brainer to go with 5k level 1. And really, even without that, having finished 13.1, still not crazy. In the end, decided to do the custom plan and Leyla’s whipping that up for me, very excited for that!
But again, this is super helpful since I will likely be focused on 5ks, then sprint triathlons, and then a half-marathon next year, so I’ll need to navigate plans and figure out what level is best.
Thanks so much!
Thanks for the reply, Leyla! All that makes sense. Going to do a field test this weekend to update things 🙂
Hey David 🙂 Apologies for my confusion here! I think I was mixing some things in my end, but think I’m clearer on it now. Let me just recap what I understand:
The 80/20 plans increase in volume over the course of the plan, and if a person completes a level 0 plan, theoretically, they are set to start level 1 after that.
And with my HM level 0, that theoretically set me up volume wise to jump into 5k level 1, but because I was saying I personally felt on the fence, you suggest sticking with level 0.
If that’s all accurate, think I’m good to go! I’m actually looking into a custom plan now 🙂
Thanks for extra details, Charles 🙂 Super helpful! Feeling like I have a better handle on the power of the subscription, and man, I really wanted a Stryd before, and now it might be at the top of my Christmas list 😉 Would love to have the consistency that power gives.
Hey Charles 🙂 Thanks for your replies! Your 2nd post is definitely something I was wondering/getting at. That was my understanding, but wanted to check. I’m definitely non-elite, and so have to assume, being very ballpark, that my 166 avg for the whole HM is quite a bit less than whatever my actual LTHR is right now. I haven’t reset it in a while, but based on the HM, thinking it’s very much due 😛
I need to try the talk test and get good at it, but I keep feeling doubtful I’ll be accurate with it lol. Your example of using it to keep things in check seems really helpful. I have noticed that the cold definitely impacts my HR for the first 5-15 minutes, then settles down. I also REALLY want to get a Stryd! Finally feel at a point where that would be such a handy, reliable metric during training. GPS and pacing is often out of whack where I run. I am trying to get better at feeling pace, but I’m no master 😛
For the 80/20 sub, are you using a plan, and then going into the workout library to swap workouts? I know you can swap intensity types at any time, but figured that was for an entire plan vs. single workouts. I’ve been tempted to do the sub as I can tell I’ll be an 80/20 lifer.
Yeah, I have read that article many times, and agree that that method and the others listed on the page are the best way to determine LTHR 🙂 My question here isn’t about guessing LTHR, it’s about what reasonable assumptions can be made from a race. For example, is reasonable to assume that my LTHR is higher than 150, just pulling a number out of the air. If it weren’t, I wouldn’t have been able to hold 166 avg for the HM.
However, I’m still going to do a TT with to determine both my TP and LTHR because one limitation in using the calculator is I have very different TPs if I use my 1-mile time vs. HM time. This is because one, I’m very much more of a speedster and two, the longest I ran prior to the half was 9 miles, and I just have not built up great endurance for that distance. My HM pace 100% puts me at a too slow TP (inaccurate) and zones that are out of whack, but for that distance, it was pretty much all I could do. My 1-mile test puts my zones much closer, but a little too fast for my lower zones. The 20 min TT will be better for me and most accurate with regards to pacing, and I’m going to go focus on 5ks now.
I use HR anyways in my training, but I’ll need to establish a new TP and LTHR at the same time.
Thanks, David! I’m leaning towards what you’re suggesting, and hadn’t realized you all had mobility plans, which I definitely need. One question about volume: It seems like increasing volume in a graduated way isn’t possible through the 80/20 plans themselves, more something we would do on our own, or do you all suggest that after a person does say a Level 0 plan (once, twice, etc), then they can jump straight to Level 1?
Thanks for sharing that article, Charles 🙂 I also appreciated this ‘return to play’ chart that Leeyla shared:
I also should also mention that I used my Whoop big time to help monitor my recovery and played things conservatively. No covid for me, thankfully, and above the neck stuff, but I stopped training the day I woke up with a sore throat, and didn’t return to training for 10 days, and only after having at least 2 solid recovery days at the end I did a very short easy run, and then waited for a peak recovery to start doing longer runs, and then after that still feeling good, some workouts with intensity. Luckily I still had 2 weeks+ before my race this week, otherwise I definitely would have dropped.
Hey ckelly 🙂 No worries at all, happy for you to jump in here. Sorry to hear you’re dealing with strep! I hope you’re able to bounce back quickly.
I know reading through the forums that the 8020 wizards say to not worry as we’ve done a ton of work prior to the sickness, so not all is lost, and I took comfort in that at least. I felt better not thinking that I lost everything and wouldn’t be able to race (mine is this Sunday).
I have basically been improvising a little last week and this week. I decided to do my RHM1 big workout just because I needed to have some idea of what my pacing could be, and I’m glad I did it. I would have gone out too hot in the race no doubt 😛 However, I also took more recovery days last week to make up for this hard workout after a few weeks off. I did do three easy workouts, short and long, before the RHM1 so I didn’t wreck myself coming off of sickness, and then extra recovery after that week. I did it last Thursday, race this Sunday, so I felt good about the timing.
That being said, even this week I’m still improvising a little. I did a Fartlek yesterday for taper, but felt it more than I thought, didn’t sleep as well, so I haven’t yet done my easy run for today. If I feel more recovered I’ll do it later today, or just skip it and prioritize recovery over fitness gains given I want to feel good on race day.
Anyways, just sharing all of this for the spirit of taking it as we go 🙂